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kdavid -
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They're bad habits have been cemented and their pretty much stuck with...
A similar thing happens in English with spelling
Hahaha. I completely missed that. Shame on me.
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I'm pretty sure that kdavid was referring to the northern pronunciation of "zh", "ch", "q", "x",
etc. (which is indeed standard putonghua, at least in the mainland), and not to the excessive use
of "-er" and swallowing of finals (which is not standard putonghua).
This is what I was referring to. I, also, have a difficult time with the heavy "er" accent on
occasion.
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Because over 20 million people in Taiwan speak the language with a Taiwan accent?
Point taken. However, more than 10 x's that speak standard Mandarin.
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And I think Taiwanese is not the same as the mandarin (aka guoyu) spoken in Taiwan.
I think you're right here. Some of my students last night, in fact, pointed out that Mandarin and
Guoyu are not the same.
Here is where I think I believe that your learning strategies should be centered around your
goals. If, for example, you plan on doing business with Taiwanese, living in Taiwan, etc., and
have little professional dealings with the mainland, then learning the Taiwanese accent / dialect
is great. There's nothing wrong with that. However, if you're going to be dealing with a wide
variety of Chinese from all over China, then you absolutely must learn standard 东北 Mandarin.
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Does it make your blood itch if you hear someone speaking English with an Australian accent, or a
Scottish accent? Is it really so bad if a large variety of accents also exist in Mandarin?
Have you seen the film "Snatch"? You know Brad Pitt's character, the pikey. You remember how he
spoke? I think Taiwanese is similar. However, that's just my opinion. I find 四川话 the same.
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what makes a certain tone/pronunciation 'correct'?
We can't really say that one accent is "correct". This is why I enclosed the word in quotation
marks.
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I also don't see a problem with people adopting an accent similar to the people around them.
I completely agree. I think this is a good sign of a good language learner. Again, one should see
my above comment on priorities, though, before deciding if adopting an accent that many
mainlanders fine difficult to understand is worth many years of their time.
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imron -
Actually, the Chinese do have a concept of which accent is correct, see for example the
普通话测试. In order to be eligible for certain jobs (teachers, broadcasters etc), you need
to have obtained a certain level on this test. It's also worth realising that with regards to
standard Mandarin, the Beijing accent is not considered standard, but also that there are some
words that are supposed to use er hua.
Personally though, I like the variety of accents, including the pikeys in Snatch and the
Sichuanese If you only expose yourself to one kind of accent then you'll have more difficulty
communicating and understanding people from other places in China.
yf_chen -
Certain dialects give me the creeps. But after you get used to them, you can get along with them.
heifeng -
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Actually, the Chinese do have a concept of which accent is correct, see for example the
普通话测试. In order to be eligible for certain jobs (teachers, broadcasters etc), you need
to have obtained a certain level on this test. It's also worth realising that with regards to
standard Mandarin, the Beijing accent is not considered standard, but also that there are some
words that are supposed to use er hua.
precisely. I personally love all chinese accents since I have been exposed to enough of both
northern and southern accents. Yet while I can imitate the accent to a certain extent, but at the
root of my chinese skills I would at least expect myself to know and be able to speak the most
standard mandarin I could for the whole purpose of making it easier for others to understand me.
If I go to taiwan or back to the US even I just cut out the er hua and when I'm in the north of
China and I don't let myself get to lazy with the zh, ch, shi like I use too when I lived with
taiwanese friends.
however, 言归正传, I think that if people have the tones correct, it is just as important as
the initial and final of a syllable...so whether or not you to avoid the beijing accent the tone
is just as important as any other aspect of the word. I would fall into the exact region you talk
about (well maybe with a more inner city slurred way of speaking rather than a midwestern accent)
and have difficulty with tones but to be honest this was just a result of my own laziness and
pushing for vocab and reading skills over pronunciation when I was in school....
if you really want your students to hear the tones you have to stress quality over quantity and
let them spend time analyzing a standard way of speaking, but maybe this requires that they know
where to look. If the near-beijing way of speaking is rejected by the instructer, then I don't
know what to say....;
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A similar thing happens in English with spelling
yeah, but I blame spellcheck too
Lu -
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Because over 20 million people in Taiwan speak the language with a Taiwan accent?
Point taken. However, more than 10 x's that speak standard Mandarin.
First, there are two standards of Mandarin, and the standard on Taiwan is slightly different from
the one on the Mainland. Second, I believe most Dongbei people have as much of an accent as many
Taiwanese (mixing up retroflexes, r becomes y, little difference between yin and yan, to name a
few). While I do feel that saying 'sese' instead of 'xiexie' is taking it a bit too far, cutting
out the heavy nothern retroflexes and dropping the erhua while in Taiwan is in my opinion only
sensible. If you're a foreigner who moves to the US after studying English in Liverpool, wouldn't
you try to mimic the accent around you, rather than sticking with what you learned?
I know a guy here who studied in Beijing for the past two years or so, and thus naturally has a
Beijing accent. Speaking Chinese with him just feels weird, for that reason.
In English I have arrived at an accent of my own, it's British-leaning with some Dutch 腔, but
not too much of anything. Ideally I would find something like that in Chinese, an accent that I'm
comfortable with on both sides of the strait and in both north and south China. Until that time,
I'll try to speak what's spoken around me, instead of sticking to the accent of some place faraway.
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